|
January, 2006 (updated May 2007)
We're coming up on 2 years in the house now, so we finally have some
performance data. The major glitches in our data is that we didn't get our
PV till July 2005, and for various reasons our rainwater system has only worked
for about eight months. We've had a few hundred people tour the house, and won a couple of awards, but
more importantly we love the house. Of course, it's not perfect, and so
here we talk about the things we like and the things we think we could have done
better.
Tours
We've hosted at least five major tours of 50+ people, and numerous other
smaller tours. While we are committed to giving them, they are also
exhausting. We're currently debating how long we'll keep doing them.
Layout
In general, the house works for us. We both love having separate
offices, and use them frequently. While we used to fight over the couch a lot,
we now both use the window seat far more often, especially when its sunny.
Although the dining area is small, we had eleven people around the table for a
snack and a roundtable discussion and it worked fine. Having a small
bedroom hasn't bothered either of us in the least. Bob hasn't been able to
use his art studio (due to work and the house), but is anticipating using it
soon. Initially we over used the mini-office, but once bob moved his email
to his laptop, this problem went away.
The mail sorting area does help with paper clutter, but it doesn't solve it
completely, because we didn't give ourselves enough space for
"projects". We've struggled a bit with the
"living room" part of the great room, and finally (Dec 2005) found a
furniture arrangement we think we like.
Energy
Our gas bills are quite a bit lower than projected, although our electric use
is not as low as expected. In July 2005 we added a 3KW PV system (the PV
compatible meter came in l Aug) and upgraded a significant amount of our
lighting to CFLs. Here is our gas/electric usage to date:
| Month |
gas (btus) |
cost |
elec (kwh) |
cost |
| Apr 2004 |
1,050,000 |
$14.88 |
|
|
| May 2004 |
940,000 |
$13.96 |
|
|
| June 2004 |
830,000 |
$12.95 |
699 |
$39.15 |
| July 2004 |
620,000 |
$11.14 |
|
|
| Aug 2004 |
720,000 |
$12.02 |
790 |
$47.25 |
| Sept 2004 |
620,000 |
$11.46 |
|
|
| Oct 2004 |
2,870,000 |
$35.07 |
1022 |
$61.51 |
| Nov 2004 |
4,500,000 |
$51.70 |
|
|
| Dec 2004 |
5,190,000 |
$58.71 |
1109 |
$67.57 |
|
Year Total |
17,340000 |
$221.89 |
3620 |
$205.58 |
| Jan 2005 |
4,400,000 |
$50.72 |
|
|
| Feb 2005 |
2,470,000 |
$31.32 |
1318 |
$80.32 |
| Mar 2005 |
1,700,000 |
$24.49 |
|
|
| Apr 2005 |
1,790,000 |
$25.39 |
912 |
$53.09 |
| May 2005 |
1,040,000 |
$17.60 |
|
|
| June 2005 |
1,040,000 |
$17.53 |
977 |
$68.37 |
| July 2005 |
720,000 |
$14.20 |
|
|
| Aug 2005 |
820,000 |
$15.29 |
672 |
$43.18 |
| Sept 2005 |
830,000 |
$15.70 |
|
|
| Oct 2005 |
1,260,000 |
$21.83 |
293 |
$24.25 |
| Nov 2005 |
4,640,000 |
$62.36 |
|
|
| Dec 2005 |
4,980,000 |
$66.38 |
388 |
$48.42 |
|
Year Total |
25,690,000 |
$362.81 |
4560 |
$317.63 |
| Jan 2006 |
5,050,000 |
$67.24 |
|
|
| Feb 2006 |
3,240,000 |
$45.58 |
752 |
$42.46 |
| Mar 2006 |
1,920,000 |
$29.77 |
|
|
| Apr 2006 |
1,900,000 |
$29.49 |
390 |
$23.42 |
| May 2006 |
1,150,000 |
$20.42 |
|
|
| June 2006 |
720,000 |
$15.32 |
213 |
$20.20 |
| July 2006 |
410,000 |
$11.61 |
|
|
| Aug 2006 |
930,000 |
$17.79 |
-59 |
$9.44 |
| Sept 2006 |
730,000 |
$15.69 |
|
|
| Oct 2006 |
2,540,000 |
$40.04 |
441 |
$25.87 |
| Nov 2006 |
4,530,000 |
$66.26 |
|
|
| Dec 2006 |
4,870,000 |
$70.65 |
764 |
$43.15 |
|
Year Total |
27,990,000 |
$429.86 |
2501 |
$164.54 |
Our predicted heat loss was 9854.7 BTU/deg/day, or about 44MBTU for a 4500
degree day year, of which our guesstimate was that 25% of that would come from
solar, so we'd need about 33MBTU of supplemental heat. Our actual use of
25.7M is much lower than that, but if you add back in the internal gain from
electric usage during the "heating months" (guesstimate of 8MBTU),
then we match our predicted loss almost exactly. Our gas usage also
includes hot water, two dryers, and a stove, but since we get about half our hot
water from solar, none of these items are likely to impact our gas energy usage
dramatically...my guess would be that it increases our gas usage by 5-10%.
Another way of looking at this is in energy used per square foot of heated
space, or energy use per finished space. Our heated space is about 2900SF (about 2500 finished, and 400 of
storage), so our average yearly gas usage is between 9207 and 10680 BTU/SF/year, and total energy use is
between 12,150 and 14094BTU/SF/Year. (the lower numbers are based on
2900SF, and the higher ones on 2500SF. For gas usage, I averaged both
years, but for electric I just used 2006, since its the only whole year with PV
installed).
The best baseline comparison is from the dept of energy website http://buildingsdatabook.eren.doe.gov/docs/1.2.10.pdf
, which lists single family residential houses as using about 44,800
BTU/SF/year. I also found alternative values for new houses down near
30,000BTU/SF/Year, which is probably a more valid comparison. Just based
on straight utility averages for comparable homes, Seattle city light says that
the average usage is 9200Kwh a year, and Puget Sound Energy says the average is
700 Therms(70MBtu), although I have no idea what the average house size those numbers
represent. In my view these comparisons aren't really apples-apples
because electric use is reasonably dependent on the number of occupants, plus our
house includes a rental unit. Ignoring these issues, we use at most only
half the energy of the average house, and possibly as little as 1/3.
Yet another measure I found is from www.2010imperative.org,
a site dedicated to reducing energy use in buildings. They use essentially
the same baseline usage (44,700BTU/SF/year), and say we need to cut that number
in half immediately, and by 90% by 2025. At 14KBTU/SF/year I'm
already about 70% lower, but further lowering will not be easy (click
here to read about the difficulty of building zero energy/zero carbon homes)
For electric comparison, I ran the city's resource calculator: http://www.seattle.gov/conserve/homeprofile.
That showed by data for Jun 21, 2004 thru Jun 21,2005 (pre PV install), so its a
good comparison of our actual use. In that period, we used 17Kwh/day and
the average comparable house used 25Kwh (single family with no electric Heat or
H/W). Since we have an ADU, our comparable usage is pretty good, although
a more fair comparison would probably be based on number of occupants.
During the last year, we converted a significant portion of our lighting to CFLs,
and upgraded one computer. Unfortunately the hibernate feature on the new
computer works only when it feels like it, and the hibernate feature on the
computer in the ADU doesn't work at all. In addition the refrigerator in
the ADU uses 2.2Kwh/day, which could be reduced to 1.1Kwh/day by buying a new
one.
Update: Jan 2007: we've updated the computer in the ADU (hibernate works
now), and installed a couple of plug strips on the tv/dvd to eliminate the
phantom load. We now have a full year of solar data, but because we're
away a lot, its not clear how to year by year comparisons.
On a more subjective basis, we find this is the most comfortable house we've
ever lived in: there are no perceptible drafts, and when the thermometer says
70, it feels relatively warm even when its fairly cold out. The one
exception is in sitting by windows, which alas still have relatively cold
surface temperature. One other thing, is that the upper floors are no
warmer than the lower floors. On cool sunny days, the main floor gets a
bit warmer than any other floors because it has more window area per square foot
of floor. In early 2005, we had unusually long sunny spell, and as a
result we were often able to go days with little or no supplemental heat.
One positive surprise is how well the house performs on hot days. Even
when the temperature was in the 90s out, the house never got warmer than 76,
provided we kept the windows open all night and closed them by 10am or so.
HVAC
The main annoying downside to our HVAC system is that it only works with very
hot water, so we have to keep the tank at 140 degrees. To make matters
worse, we can't turn the tank temperature down because plumbing code (and
possibly sensibility) require a tempering valve if the tank is above 120
degrees. The problem here is that tempering valves lower the hot water
temperature by at least 20 degrees, so if you try to turn the tank down to 120
in the summer, the tap hot water is only lukewarm. This problem is further
exaggerated by the fact that our "utility closet" in the basement is
the only part of our house that isn't super-insulated. The result of this is
that our standby losses are probably greater than they should be, although we
don't really know what they are.
One side effect of the fan/coil heating system is that it delivers heat very
slowly, even with the tank set at 140F. Our tank will go up to 160F,
but that would also increase our standby losses, so we haven't tried it.
In retrospect, I wish we'd found a cost effective way to do radiant heat
because it can transfer the same amount of heat with lower temperature water.
While radiant heat is typically installed in either slab-on-grade or in a thin
slab, I'm not convinced this is a good idea, because it means the temperature of
the house can take a very long time to change. The idea of the slab is to
distribute the heat better, but I could find no evidence that its really any
better than using aluminum heat distributors under the floor. In my view,
the conventional wisdom about radiant doesn't apply to a super-insulated house:
(1) you're not likely to save energy (2) most surfaces are already near room
temperature and the floor doesn't need to deliver as much heat so there really
isn't a lot of increased comfort (3) there is little heat stratification in a
super-insulated house. If I had radiant heat, I could downsized my duct
dramatically since ventilation needs much less air than heating does. My
preliminary calculations are that 120F water would be more than sufficient to
heat the house even on the coldest day.
Solar H/W
The thermomax system works like a charm. In the summer the pre-heat tank runs
between 110 and 160 degrees, in the winter it often hovers around 60 and in the
spring/fall its usually between 80 and 120. If we didn't have to keep our
main tank at 140, we'd get a higher percentage of our H/W from solar.
Tankless H/W
I'm still waiting for a tankless hot water unit that will serve a whole
house, has no pilot, is closed combustion (those are available) and also will
work with pre-heated water from a solar collector (at the same time, it ought to
deliver hot water at less than 1 gal/minute). The problem with all of them
is that they have no equivalent to "simmer" on the stove...even on
"low" they put out a lot of heat. Apparently the solution to let
the unit overheat the water and then use a tempering valve to limit the
temperature. Some places advertise that their tankless unit modulated down
to zero, but as far as I can tell this is a false claim unless they modulate
their burner, since the minimum burn rate on every unit I've ever seen is
much too high to deliver 120 degree water when the input temperature is 100 or
110. The lowest minimum burn rate I've seen is on a Rinnai, at 15K BTU/hr,
which is still about three times too much (5k BTU/hr is more like it).
While it is theoretically possible to modulate the burner (ie turn on and off)
to lower the effective output, doing this would undoubtedly wear out the burner
fast, or even damage it.
The most promising solution I've seen it to use a 5gal (or so) holding tank
and hook it up an on-demand unit to it driven by a pump. A thermostat in
the holding tank is used to turn on the pump, whose flow causes the tankless
unit to turn itself on. In order to be able to deal with water at 115, the
tankless unit will have to be set at 140, to get it to turn on at all. Now
even a 1.5gpm pump (90gal/hr) will push enough water thru to keep the unit
above its minimum burn rate. The tankless unit will then produce 140F
water which will mix with the 115F water (hopefully very well!), until the
holding tank reaches 120, at which point the thermostat will turn the
circulating pump off. (note: obviously you need two thermostats: one set at a
"turn on" temperature, and the other at a "turn off
temperature", and those have to be far enough apart to keep the two from
trying to trigger at the same time, or causing the pump to go into oscillation).
This system is really effectively just a small tank unit that uses a very
large burner (supplied by the tankless unit). At least the small tank can
be super-insulated, reducing the standby losses to very small.
Since my current system works, I'm not likely to try this anytime soon.
PV
We had 3KW of PV put on our roof in July 2005. To get net metering
going, you have to fill out a bunch of paperwork, and once we did, the
utility came out in Aug 2005 to give us a meter that will actually run
backward. The installed price is around $18,000, which as far as I can
tell has a payback that is around the life of the system. Based on our estimate
of around 3000kwh generated a year (I have only 18 months of data), and assuming
its worth 10 cents/kwh (even though our summer rate is more like 4 cents/kwh),
the PV generates $300/year of electric. At that rate the payback is around
60 years. I'm assuming here the the discount rate on my $18k investment
cancels out the inflation rate for the cost of electric. If the cost of
electric goes up significantly faster than the amount I could have earned
keeping the $18k invested, then the payback time will shorten.
The state of Washington passed a 15cent/kwh rebate law in Jul 2005, but due
to some internal political battle, it wasn't actually implemented till Jul 2006. They did
actually make the rebate retroactive, and as a result I got $382.50 for the PV I
generated from the time I installed thru July 2006 (2550kwh). Even
with this rebate, and using 10 cents/kwh avoided cost, the payback is still 24 years--a long
time. I'm declaring myself neutral on the issue of whether subsidies are a
good idea. If I had a choice, I'd be putting funding into designing more
efficient cells and increases in manufacturing efficiency. More info can
probably be found on www.solarwashington.org
or at the American solar energy society's site: www.ases.org.
We now participate in Seattle City light's green power program send $72 back
to the city to help fund their purchase of green power.
May, 2007: Now that the production program is in place, they'd decided
the production meter must be located outside, so they can read it.
Unfortunately, we put it in the attic because it was easier, assuming I'd be
reading it. It cost a bit over $700 to move it, and then I have to pay a $47
fee for a new meter. So while someday I still expect to save money, that
hasn't happened yet. Such is the life of a pioneer. We are still
saving carbon, its just that its cost us to do it.
The other issue that has come up is the effect of shading, which reduces
output dramatically more than I understood. (I've now updated the
"theory" page to explain it, click
here to read about it.) We had one tree thinned in Jan 2007, and although it
should reduce the problem, we probably took off too little to effect it
much...or keep it from recurring next year. I really need to top the tree
somewhere near the roof line, but its not my tree.
Ventilation
Although we installed an HRV, we've never used it. We installed a
separate ventilation controller to run the HRV directly below the thermostat,
but it turned out as dumb luck would have it, the heat rising off the
ventilation controller's power supply was heating up the temperature senor in
the thermostat because we installed the two really close and the vent for the
controller lines up exactly with the inlet for the thermostat sensor. As a
result, I snapped the controller off its base to fix the problem, only to
discover that the installer didn't leave any slack in the wires, so I'm going to
have to break some sheetrock to fix the problem.
In the meanwhile, I looked more into ventilation requirements and bought a
humidity meter to try to get any idea of whether the lack of ventilation in our
very tight house was a problem. In fact our humidity stays in the 45-50%
range all the time, which is considered good. I also tried to reconcile
why commercial ventilation is set at 15CFM/person, but residential is expressed
as .35 ACH, which in our house translates to around 90 CFM. As it
turns out, even the 15CFM is high if you're looking at only the Oxygen necessary
for life. The addition ventilation is for diluting other pollutants.
I have no real way to measure how clean our air is, but I can say that we
avoid most of the traditional source of indoor pollutants, and use both the bath
fan and kitchen fan religiously. The blower door test measured our house
at .14ACH, which corresponds to about 37CFM of "natural
ventilation". I've yet to determine even approximately what
conditions "natural" ventilation represents, but I'm pretty convinced
that typical winter weather causes significantly higher passive ventilation than
that, and as a result, I'm not convinced that mechanical ventilation beyond
bath/kitchen fans is necessary in winter. While kitchen & bath fans
aren't a huge ventilation contributor, I'm guessing they still add 8-10CFM when
averaged over the day.
Rainwater
Since almost no one in Seattle has done a rainwater tank (including us), this
project has suffered from a lot of glitches. Our small lot dictated that
it had to be under ground (or under the house), so we still feel that cast
in place concrete was the right choice. We use the patio on the tank
surface whenever the weather allows.
Sealing it required a lot of futzing around, but like anything else one you
know exactly what product to use and how to use it, everything becomes much
easier. Had we sealed it during the summer, our job would have been
easier, because we had a steady stream of groundwater coming in the tank in the
seam between the floor and the walls, which complicated sealing the tank
significantly.
While the tank itself was ready to go when we moved in, we didn't get our
permit to use it flush our toilets till many months later. When we finally
did, we promptly burned out the pump, because even though it says that its
self-priming, they don't really mean that. Once we found someone to repair
it (a few more months: since there are no wells around it was hard to find
someone who knew how to fix them), the system run great for about six months and
then burned out again. It also turns out that adjusting the turn on/turn
off pressure switch is easy to get wrong, and when you do the pump goes into
on/off oscillation.
We don't know exactly why the pump burned out, but our theory is that it was
because the filter was clogged, creating too much back pressure. We
installed a "motor check" device, which was supposed to prevent this,
but again, we may have had it adjusted wrong.
We rebuilt the tank inlets so that the water disperses upward to try to keep
it from stirring up the silt, and we converted our fixed intake to a floating
one, because the cleanest water is generally about 6" or so below the
surface. We're also going to build a dam around the hatch cover to stuff
from entering that way. I'd recommend raising the hatch cover at least
1/2" above the tank surface for this reason, even though it means you now
have to worry about tripping over it. We're replacing the shallow well
pump/pressure tank with a motor that is made to cycle often and has its own
built in pressure switch, and replacing the filter with one that has a cartridge
about three times as big as the old one.
When its all done (spring 2006), you can find the updated info here.
Plumbing
We're sold on PEX. We get hot water everywhere in the house really
fast. We love our ASKO dishwasher, not only because its so energy &
water efficient, but because its so quiet. We like our Fisher/Paykel
washer also, although it's not so quiet. Having a washer with a spin speed
makes the clothes come out much drier than a conventional washer. Someday
we'd like to get a genuine front loader, but in the mean time we're happy with
what we have.
The rainwater tank lasted for most of the 2005 summer watering season, so we
didn't have to use too much city water. In spite of that our water use,
remains very low. Here is a chart of our water usage:
| Usage Date |
Usage (gallons/day) |
Cost |
Sewer+Water |
| Apr-Jun 2004 |
84.5 |
$32.24 |
$56.11 |
| Jun-Aug 2004 |
105 |
$40.64 |
$58.34 |
| Aug-Oct 2004 |
112 |
$37.98 |
$55.68 |
| Oct-Dec 2004 |
114 |
$36.34 |
$81.70 |
| Dec-Feb 2005 |
103 |
$33.58 |
$84.82 |
| Feb-Apr 2005 |
84 |
$31.97 |
$78.03 |
| Apr-Jun 2005 |
81 |
$33.73 |
$79.79 |
| Jun-Aug 2005 |
81 |
$33.96 |
$80.02 |
| Aug-Oct 2005 |
96 |
$35.81 |
$88.45 |
| Oct-Dec 2005 |
62 |
$26.45 |
$59.35 |
| Dec-Feb 2006 |
98 |
$34.27 |
$88.02 |
| Feb-Apr 2006 |
26 |
$18.40 |
$31.92 |
| Apr-Jun 2006 |
98 |
$35.97 |
$75.06 |
| Jun-Aug 2006 |
72 |
$32.68 |
$66.48 |
| Aug-Oct 2006 |
123 |
$42.17 |
$75.97 |
| Oct-Dec 2006 |
47 |
$25.76 |
$52.80 |
Our usage is nominally for four people, but we've been traveling about two
months a year. Countering this is the fact that we work at home, so we're
home more than most people. I'm guessing that the drop in usage for
the Mar 2005 billing was due to the rainwater tank working, and the rise in Sept
2005 was due to the pump breaking. The low number for Nov 2005 is probably
due to all of us being away a lot in Sept & Oct.
The low number in Feb-mar 2006, is again due to travel, and the higher number
in Aug-Oct is because we ran out of water in the rainwater tank and had to hand
water plants for a three weeks or so.
Materials
We've have done a lot with materials since moving in, although I've spent a
lot more time researching salvage materials. There is no longer anyone
doing full deconstruction in Seattle, but there is a move to get it restarted in
the spring of 2006. For more information on a working model for full
deconstruction visit the website of California based non-profit The Reuse People
( www.thereusepeople.org).
One positive piece of news is that FSC lumber is now more readily
available, with at least one supplier stocking some materials (see www.dunnlum.com).
(Aside: I wrote to WA state lands commissioner Doug Sutherland that they should
consider FSC certification, and the letter I got back was that they didn't think
anyone wanted it or would pay the price premium for it. Obviously Doug
never actually tried buying any of it.)
Salvage materials are becoming more popular, but as stated elsewhere, there
is a learning curve.
- Dimensional lumber is still generally not available, although its fairly
easy to work with as long as it's been cleaned well.
- Re-milled flooring is a drop in replacement for new and is readily
available.
- Re-used flooring needs to be free of nails and excess finish in the tongue
& grove area.
- Re-milled finish lumber is available, but takes some practice to use
effectively. In retrospect, I don't regret buying "character
grade", but in the future I would want to see a large sample, like 10 full
size boards of whatever size you're buying.
- Re-used trim is readily available, although not necessarily in the size and
shape you want. It will require significant processing to make it useable.
Once you really get into reclaimed materials they become almost like pieces
of art. This fact makes them both expensive and the most loved pieces in
any house. For more information (and lots of pictures!) on how
others have used salvage materials, see http://www.ci.seattle.wa.us/sustainablebuilding/greenhome.htm
There is still a large pile of leftover wood in the basement, although we've
used some of it. Although its the wood that had the most
"defects", most of it will be useable by cutting it into smaller
pieces and gluing them together.
Adaptability
Our adaptable wiring system works, but leaves much to be desired. We're
calling it a work in progress.
Sound Insulation While the sound barrier between us and the ADU is
very good, low frequency noise still travels thru the floor because we didn't
isolate that. Its not a problem, but takes some getting used to when
you've lived many years in a detached home. I suspect there are good
solutions for this, but they're not obvious since the two units sit on the same
load bearing wall. Cost The whole project ended up more expensive
than we hoped, but this is almost always the case for any custom construction,
and we don't attribute much of that to the various green features. Our
final construction cost was around $575k, which comes out to about
$230/SF. This doesn't include cost of the land, the original house,
landscaping, architects fee and all the various other permits and design fees we
had. While this is very expensive, its not out of line with comparable
non-green projects. While we have only ballpark numbers on the cost of many of our green
features (see Costs in the design section), we
believe they're fairly accurate. Based on these, the majority of our
"green" features added up to $22k, or less than 5% of our total
cost. If you add in the PV, active solar and Cistern, it goes up to $58.5K
or closer to 12% of our total cost. Landscaping While turf grass is
cheap and easy to put in, a useful outdoor space filled with perennials is
neither cheap nor easy. The good news is that you can put it in slowly,
and as long as you keep up on the weeds, it probably could be lower maintenance
than turf grass. However, in the process I became a bit of a plant nut, and now
have over 200 different perennials. It would have been much easier for me
to restrict myself to a much smaller number of only the tough ones, but like
everyone who gets hooked on gardening, I wanted to have flowers or something of
interest all over the yard all year long. In Jan 2006, we took over the
partly shaded parking strip section, filling it mostly with tougher plants that
are largely scavenged from neighbors or other parts of the yard. Some day
I will add an entire gardening section. Spring 2007 update: much of the
garden has filled in, and we now have more than 250 different perennials.
Documenting them has gotten to be a time consuming task since they die, they get
moved, I loose the tag or get a plant as a gift and don't know what it is, so
I'm no longer sure of the exact number. As with many other gardeners, I'm now
running into the problem of plants got bigger than expected and plants that
spread more than desirable. In our initial installation, I planted about
eight 4" pots of Sweet Woodruff (Galium odoratum) and am now ripped out
many square feet of it. Its an attractive plant, but much too aggressive
for good garden soil and regular water, so I've moved chunks of it to
difficult spots and am ripping the rest out. All the old english ivy (Hedera
helix) and St Johns wart (Hypericum) are also gone. I also had to move the
Shasta daisy's as they were starting to take over. Some day I will post a
complete garden description, although generally I'm finding reasonable resources
for northwest gardens on the web already. Here are a few I found useful: www.greatplantpicks.org www.rainyside.com www.paghat.com We
ran out of water in the tank last summer due to drought and new plants that
needed water. In the two years of using drip, I've finally discovered its
limitations. Everyone says to water deeply, but I've found at least two
problems with this wisdom. The first is that in well drained soil, a drip
system will produce a column of water that can easily be much narrower than the
root system of your plant. The second is that many plants produce only
shallow roots. To correct for this, I'm going to try installing more drippers on
the bigger plants, and running the system for less time. My idea now is to
try to get water into the top 4-6" of soil, rather than all the way down to
12".
|